I’ve made known my thoughts about the Pope and my opinion that he should retire. The topic came up last night with my parents and my mother said she saw an interview this week where the interviewee said that the Pope had discussed the subject of retirement and that he would retire “when Christ came down from the cross.”

There’s a serious flaw in his theology with that statement and there ensued an enlightening discussion of Catholic vs Protestant thought about Jesus himself, our salvation, and the huge chasm in our theological thought and interpretation of Scripture. In a nutshell, we Protestants consider the work of salvation to have been done with Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection where Catholics consider that salvation will come in the future. But I digress ...

Doing some quick research for that quote from the Pope, I found this article and it turns out that is not exactly what he said,

The Pope has said repeatedly that he will never retire or resign, having asked: “Did Christ come down from the Cross?”

Big difference. Just thought I’d clarify.

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1. I agree he should retire.

   Posted by Michael Morgan  on  02/13/05  at  03:37 PM

2. Well, I’m not RC, so I don’t have a horse in the race, so to speak, but I don’t see why he should retire. It’s not like he has nuclear weapons at his disposal or anything :)

   If it’s his church’s postion that it’s a post one holds till death, then so be it.

   Posted by Ith  on  02/13/05  at  04:10 PM

3. I really don’t have a horse in the race either, except that he is the most recognizable face of the Christian faith in the world and he presents a weak facade. In addition, I’ve never been one to think that anyone should be appointed to anything for life (meaning until they actually die in that office or position or whatever).

   Posted by  on  02/13/05  at  05:33 PM

4. “I’ve never been one to think that anyone should be appointed to anything for life (meaning until they actually die in that office or position or whatever).”

   Do you think there should be term limits and/or an age cutoff for federal judges, then?  I’m not really sure where I stand on the issue, myself, but I’d be interested to know.

   As for the papacy, as a Jew I suppose I have even less of “a horse in the race,” although the current Pope has been philosemitic to an unprecedented degree among his predecessors, and one doubts his successors would be.  I suppose I’ve nonetheless found the Vatican intriguing as an institution.

   Posted by  on  02/13/05  at  06:11 PM

5. Dave, I’d have to say “yes” to term limits for federal judges, including the Supreme Court Justices. I mean, look at Rehnquist. Look at what we know about dementia and Alzheimer’s in the elderly. We regress as we age and while I don’t want to sound agist - the fact is that we really need to reevaluate the idea of lifelong positions now that people are living to twice what they did when the Founders were alive and set this government in place.

   Posted by  on  02/13/05  at  06:38 PM

6. Just because ‘average’ age has gone up, doesn’t mean people live longer. Most of the difference in lifespan has come from preventing deaths from birth and nasty childhood diseases.
   The slight increase at the top end has come about because of increased access to healthcare and because we have eliminated hunger from the equation. [Also global warming will mean we live longer! So burn those fossil fuels]
   In truth this ‘dementia’ and general degradation of the body we associate with the elderly and death is not at a fixed age, but instead there tends to be a pattern that people are essentially fine in all their faculties until fairly close to their death.
   e.g someone who dies at 100 may start this process at 97, and someone who dies at 80 may stary at 78.

   Regarding the truth about life expectancy. Children born today in the US have a projected life expectency 10 years less than their parents.

   Pope vs Supreme Court Judge. There is one fundamental difference. Popes and Monarchs are “God-given” positions; Judges are given by the secular state. So the Pope’s appointment is ‘til death thanks to God and neither he nor anyone else can take that away from him.

   Posted by Monjo  on  02/14/05  at  05:15 AM

7. Monjo, canon law specifically allows for papal resignation.  The fact that it hasn’t happened for more than 700 years doesn’t mean a pope is under an OBLIGATION to serve for life.

   Posted by  on  02/14/05  at  02:12 PM

8. Monjo, it’s a semantic issue, but I do not believe that monarchs are necessarily God ordained for their positions. There have been plenty of British monarchs who pretty much stole their kingly/queenly crowns and others who did little for the Kingdom of God.

   Posted by  on  02/14/05  at  02:35 PM

9. “There have been plenty of British monarchs who pretty much stole their kingly/queenly crowns...”

   Plenty?  I can only think of Henry IV and Edward IV offhand.  Is two enough to be “plenty”?  Henry VII maybe, but being the last one left standing at the end of the Wars of the Roses isn’t exactly stealing.

   Posted by  on  02/14/05  at  04:18 PM

10. Monjo, this assertion, “Regarding the truth about life expectancy. Children born today in the US have a projected life expectency 10 years less than their parents,” is wrong. According to this reference:

    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus04trend.pdf#027

    the life expectancy of the US is on a steady, if slow, increase.

    Posted by  on  02/14/05  at  05:10 PM

11. Dave, OK two stole their crowns. I was lumping in the ill-gotten monarchies with those who did little for the Kingdom of God. And I could argue that that covers most of the rest.

    Posted by  on  02/14/05  at  08:29 PM

12. Dave J: merci
    Jen’s dad: True, the current trend is still upwards. But some reading that is good:
    http://www.bc.edu/centers/crr/issues/ib_21.pdf
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/27/health/main619946.shtml
    http://www.edlotterman.com/LifeExpectancy.htm
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9829-927556,00.html
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9829-1121572,00.html
    and finally: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmselect/cmhealth/23/23.pdf

    Posted by Monjo  on  02/17/05  at  09:32 AM

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