Beau and I are reading through Genesis together for our devotional time. It has been a long time since I read Genesis and it’s amazing what things are jumping out at us as we read each chapter.

Last night the following was what poked at me:

Genesis 9:11-17 (ESV)

11 I establish my covenant with you, that never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood, and never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.” 12And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant that I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all future generations: 13I have set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14When I bring clouds over the earth and the bow is seen in the clouds, 15 I will remember my covenant that is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh. And the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh. 16When the bow is in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth.” 17God said to Noah, “This is the sign of the covenant that I have established between me and all flesh that is on the earth.”

Italics mine. I found it interesting that God said the rainbow will be His reminder of his vow not to destroy “all flesh on earth.” It’s not just a reminder to us, but for Himself also. Cool.

The irony? That an activist group has hijacked God’s symbol of promise not to destroy the earth to represent their movement (and sin) and that the activist group happens to be of the persuasion that mostly resulted in the destruction of Sodom/Gomorrah.

And then I threw out the question that popped in my head the other night - was the sea-life destroyed in the flood, too? I ask because we have salt water fish and fresh water fish and the two cannot co-exist, right? So if the waters that covered the earth were salty, then only the fresh water fish died and vice versa, right? Or was it that all water life at that time did co-exist and that after the flood and with the movement of the plates to form the continents, the water properties changes and the oceans because salty while the inland waters remained salt-free?

Anyone have answers?

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1. There’s an activist group for criminals who attempt to assault travelers and rape their hosts’ daughters? Somehow I missed that, but I’m pretty sure they don’t use rainbows as their symbols.

   Posted by Pisco Sours  on  06/12/08  at  05:42 AM

2. And sorry to follow up my own comment, but I feel like one needs to understand the Hebrew original before attempting to translate into English. The word that the NIV translates as “have sex with” is from the Hebrew root for “know”. It’s true that in Hebrew, “know” is sometimes used euphemistically to mean “to have sex with,” but it’s also more frequently used in its literal meeting. (Unless, of course, all the righteous who knew God were… no, we won’t go any further!)

   I think it more likely that the mob in Sodom were saying, “Bring ‘em out and let’s have a look at ‘em.” Rape may or may not have been on their mind, but robbery, assault, and possibly murder were. And in ancient times, where it was much harder for travelers to find lodging, hosts were honor-bound to protect their charges. “Don’t harm my guests,” Lot said, “Take my daughters instead.”

   Really, insinuating that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was homosexuality is a huge stretch and doesn’t fit the overall tone of the passage.

   Posted by Pisco Sours  on  06/12/08  at  05:52 AM

3. I’ve always wondered about the fish, as well. All I can think is that maybe with that much water somehow the pressure was too much? (This of course doesn’t make sense since really they could probably just swim up to where the pressure was less...but it’s all I’ve ever been able to figure.) I just have this on my list of things to ask God when I meet Him in person. :)

   Posted by beth  on  06/12/08  at  06:53 AM

4. Pisco, I was referring generally to the destruction of Sodom/Gomorrah for the sins of sexual immorality/deviance among other sins about which they were unrepentent.

   Posted by jen  on  06/12/08  at  07:58 AM

5. Surviving fish?  Sure, sounds easy but “Not so!” as this brief article notes http://www.icr.org/article/351/

   The article notes survivability based on salinity, temperature, and turbidity and makes some observation based on lakes around St. Helens after the blast.  I was left wondering about fish eggs....

   and speaking of eggs.... (okay, I couldn’t come up with a better segue)

   Pisco, the interjection of Lot’s daughters into the dialogue is a contrast between male and female and that what they had in mind was better done with his daughters: “Don’t do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you....” And the mob’s response is the same as today--who made you judge?

   Posted by  on  06/12/08  at  08:28 AM

6. I like to say the word “turbidity.” Thanks for using it here, Beau. I’m going to look into this, tho, and will try to remember to report back with my findings.

   Posted by Bryan  on  06/12/08  at  08:33 AM

7. Beau!  You’re back to commenting!  You’ve been away too long!

   Posted by  on  06/12/08  at  09:15 AM

8. Beau, with all due respect, you can’t seriously be saying, or claiming the Bible says, that it’s better to assault and/or rape women than it is to assault and/or rape men?

   Please rethink this. That would not be any sort of holy book I could respect in any way.

   Posted by Pisco Sours  on  06/12/08  at  09:37 AM

9. hey Pisco,

   I think you’re right.  It certainly isn’t more right to assault the weaker than the stronger.  But the question is, what is the meaning of the passage? “Don’t do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you....” What is the importance of the substitution of virgins for men in regard to “this wicked thing”?

   Posted by  on  06/12/08  at  10:17 AM

10. and thank God for rainbows and promises....

    O Love that will not let me go....

    O Joy that seekest me through pain,
    I cannot close my heart to thee;
    I trace the rainbow through the rain,
    And feel the promise is not vain,
    That morn shall tearless be.

    Posted by  on  06/12/08  at  10:27 AM

11. In reference to the “visitors” who had been invited into Lot’s home, they were angels but, also, guests of Lot.  When the “men of Sodom surrounded the house...they called to Lot and said..."bring them out so that we may have relations with them.” (meaning homosexual relations) Lot implored them not to act wickedly and offered his two daughters instead. 
    “...only do nothing to these men, inasmuch as they have come under the shelter of my roof.” Lot was compelled to protect his guests, at all costs, as this was the cultural custom (and still is in some Middle Eastern cultures) at the time.  The demands of hospitality in this instance doesn’t justify Lot’s behavior towards his daughters but it does explain it.

    Posted by  on  06/12/08  at  11:03 AM

12. Thanks for the response, Beau and Marmie. I can breathe easier now.

    Posted by Pisco Sours  on  06/12/08  at  12:02 PM

13. Re the rainbow as God’s symbol of promise nd whether it’s been hijacked (or not). If I’m right, I think it’s a reference to diversity in general, rather than just to one or two activist groups. To link it to the destruction of Sodom/Gomorrah may be a bit of a reach.

    Posted by  on  06/12/08  at  12:36 PM

14. Maybe. I know there’s the Rainbow Coalition, but I don’t think they use the rainbow as their symbol. I’ve always known it as the rainbow representing homosexuality specifically, not just diversity in general.

    That said, the rainbow isn’t the symbol for diversity either.

    Posted by jen  on  06/12/08  at  12:44 PM

15. OK, the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition does use the rainbow. So I’m wrong about that, but I stand by the general position that the God’s giving of the rainbow is not for diversity.

    Posted by jen  on  06/12/08  at  12:50 PM

16. *ponders what happened to photons passing through water droplets before the flood*

    Posted by Pisco Sours  on  06/12/08  at  12:52 PM

17. There were torpedos in the water?

    Bad joke, I know. Sorry, it was the first thing that popped in my mind when I read the word “photons.”

    

    Posted by jen  on  06/12/08  at  01:04 PM

18. @Pisco Sours, what happens to photons passing through water droplets now?  You get a grey sky overhead.  But there is no guarantee that the waters, prior to the flood, were actually between the sun and earth. I suspect not, as a grey overcast 100% of the time would be pretty depressing and the Garden was anything but depressing.

    Captcha has a gimme answer this time since the answer can be determined by the number of characters hint.

    Posted by  on  06/12/08  at  01:07 PM

19. “Rainbows are optical and meteorological phenomena that cause a spectrum of light to appear in the sky when the Sun shines onto droplets of moisture in the Earth’s atmosphere.”

    Unless the flood somehow changed the very laws of physics?

    Posted by Pisco Sours  on  06/12/08  at  01:10 PM

20. The other dimension, and which seems to be the 800 lb gorilla in the room, is whether this episode is actual history. If you belief it to be so, than you will inevitably tie yourself into knots trying to reconcile the implications of that. Or you can approach it from the point of view that this is how the people of Israel accounted for their orgins, how they saw the relationship of the creator and the creation, and how God responds with covenant faithfulness—a theme which echoes with Abraham and Moses, and brought to fruition with Christ crucified.

    Posted by  on  06/12/08  at  01:23 PM

21. The world was changed post-flood. God can change anything He wants to - he created all. So yeah, I see no problem with him changing the laws of physics post-flood to create the rainbow.

    Posted by jen  on  06/12/08  at  01:25 PM

22. Just to clarify ~ the rainbow is a sign of God’s covenant promise that He will never flood the earth again. Also, pre-flood there had never been rain on the earth, a mist came up from the ground. I don’t think there were any droplets of moisture between the earth and sun but I am not a student of physics just a student of the Word. 

    Posted by  on  06/12/08  at  04:23 PM

23. Interesting commentary here!  The men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted the angels because they saw them as men and were not interested in the young girls at all.  Reading the last part of Romans 1 might help make the connection between inhospitality (no room at the “inn” [our soul] for God) and the development of homosexuality and sexual sin.

    Re: changing the laws of physics ... It was the 10 Commandments of moral behavior Moses brought down from the mount ~ not the periodical table!

    Posted by  on  06/12/08  at  04:41 PM

24. @Pisco Sours, From above, every cloud has a rainbow in it. I flew airplanes for 15 years, and every time I was above the clouds, with the sun shining down, there was a perfectly circular rainbow directly down-Sun from where I was. But most of the time, those rainbows are NOT visible from the surface. So, no change in physics required. Pre-flood, no clouds, so no rainbows. Post-flood, clouds, each of which reflects a rainbow. Every once in a while we get to see part of the rainbow when the sun is low in the sky and the light gets refracted and reflected back to us. Ever notice that you always have to stand with your back to the sun to see the rainbow? But most of the time, from the surface, the sky is dark and grey, because the light is being refracted and reflected back up, not getting through the cloud.

    Posted by  on  06/12/08  at  09:00 PM

25. Marmie, I was going to ask about that - I thought I remembered you telling me about the mist pre-flood.

    Dad, that’s cool! I love knowing that and it shows more how God put the rainbow as a reminder to Himself.

    Posted by  on  06/13/08  at  04:38 AM

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